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Post by bee3 on Jan 4, 2013 18:54:38 GMT -5
Posted this already on the other site, but looking for more ideas. -------------------------- Here's a new one… just the start of it. Not sure where it's going yet… it's a half-baked idea at this point. I know this isn't a songwriting forum per se, but if anyone has ideas on where to take this, I'd appreciate it. soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12087268UPDATED VERSION: soundcloud.com/justind/she-refusedBeauty Crown She refused the beauty crown Dropped her flowers, ripped her gown Left alone and then she headed into town She feels better with a drink Helps her when she doesn't think It's so tragic that her life is on the brink Her father never loved her, nor did her mother In fact they never really cared for one another So their little girl is the one who has to suffer And find her way alone in the world |
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Post by unclenny on Jan 4, 2013 19:04:32 GMT -5
Just reading those first three lines.......yeah! Listening now.... Great BVox. Love the way the song develops and builds. Great tone on that lead. Good start...true to your style.  |
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Post by rickdieffenbach on Jan 9, 2013 6:16:58 GMT -5
Hi bee,
You asked for songwriting suggestions on this one.
1. The two verse lyrics set up what can be a compelling story. Definitely got my attention. And the music fits.
2. Going into "her father never loved her" ... I';d relegate the music to that in the bridge, because that music itself is a little upbeat for the tone of the verses. (the rise in it does that)
3. But what I loved and think you should extend from is that wavy sound that appears after the 2nd verse and after what I will refer to as the bridge. That up and down sound. In my head I heard the chorus actually working off of that... where we take the listener "down". A darker mood of music.
4. And in that chorus what if you talked about
Others think she's so beautiful
To her shes just she's just me
She never wanted anything but love
Never wanted the crown of a beauty queen
... just a rough idea .. something like that.
At any rate, those are my thoughts - take us "down" in teh chorus, work off of that wavy sound, and in the chorus explore her thoughts.
Rick
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Post by bee3 on Jan 9, 2013 8:44:04 GMT -5
Hi rick - not following what you mean by 'wavy'  |
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Post by rickdieffenbach on Jan 9, 2013 10:32:45 GMT -5
www.allureiw.com/crownbeerick.mp3Thanks for letting me do a duet with you... for what it's worth. At the transition, you can hear your voice wave in picth up and down... Rick
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Post by stickboy on Jan 9, 2013 10:35:49 GMT -5
www.allureiw.com/crownbeerick.mp3Thanks for letting me do a duet with you... for what it's worth. At the transition, you can hear your voice wave in picth up and down... Rick Ohh that was a weird experience - some great ideas |
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Post by rickdieffenbach on Jan 9, 2013 11:15:24 GMT -5
RE": Ohh that was a weird experience - some great ideas
You probably mean going from Bee3's angelic voice to .... my not so angelic voice ... :-) that's ok. God made me perfect, too. :-)
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Post by bee3 on Jan 9, 2013 11:33:00 GMT -5
I DID really like one of those chord modulations in there. Thanks Rick! No idea what I'm going to do yet, but I have been toying with some lyric changes (some were LCKs). Something along the lines of:
She refused to wear the crown
Dropped the flowers, ripped her gown
Left alone and she headed into town
She feels better when she drinks
Helps her cope or so she thinks
It is tragic that her life is on the brink
Her father never loved her, so said her mother
It's sad that they never really cared for one another
So their little girl is the one who has to suffer
And find her way alone in the world
Then the next musical section... not sure what it is yet, may go into something like (and I'm just haphazardly making this up as I type)
He was head of the English department
Kept her after class, then to his apartment
She was searching for her latest father figure
Retaliate against her crazy mother...
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Post by stickboy on Jan 9, 2013 11:41:56 GMT -5
RE": Ohh that was a weird experience - some great ideas You probably mean going from Bee3's angelic voice to .... my not so angelic voice ... :-) that's ok. God made me perfect, too. :-) your voice sounded great on it...just a little surreal as it blended in  |
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 9, 2013 14:00:14 GMT -5
I don't like that latest last verse. It's kinda sordid. I'd prefer that we stay with her destructive behaviour and disintegrating life without introducing another character into the narrative.
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Post by bee3 on Jan 9, 2013 14:55:22 GMT -5
OK... back to the drawing board.
How about:
Though she's beautiful on the outside
All the strings that bound her heart, they've come untied
She doesn't want to be a queen, what she wants and what she needs
Is someone who can guarantee she won't be alone....
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Post by bee3 on Jan 9, 2013 15:33:49 GMT -5
She refused to wear the crown
Dropped the flowers, ripped her gown
Left alone and she headed into town
She feels better when she drinks
Helps her cope or so she thinks
Its so tragic that her life is on the brink
Her father never loved her, so said her mother
It's sad they never really cared for one another
So their little girl is the one who has to suffer
And find her way alone in the world
Though she's beautiful on the outside
All the strings that bound her heart, they've come untied
She doesn't want to be a queen, what she wants and what she needs
Is someone who can guarantee she won't be alone
Her father never loved her, so said her mother
It's sad they never really cared for one another
So their little girl is the one who has to suffer
And find her way around in the world
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 9, 2013 15:35:21 GMT -5
Maybe return to a verse structure before the next musical change.
You could develop the story of her situation with something like this :
And though her beauty turns some heads
When morning comes they leave her bed
An emptiness holds her instead
or with a small change:
Though her beauty turns some heads
When morning comes they leave her bed
And emptiness holds her instead
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Post by bee3 on Jan 9, 2013 16:17:45 GMT -5
Uh oh... I'm on a path already. I've no choice but to continue on it... then we'll see what happens.
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Post by mrkelley on Jan 9, 2013 16:46:45 GMT -5
I DID really like one of those chord modulations in there. Thanks Rick! No idea what I'm going to do yet, but I have been toying with some lyric changes (some were LCKs). Something along the lines of: She refused to wear the crown Dropped the flowers, ripped her gown Left alone and she headed into town She feels better when she drinks Helps her cope or so she thinks It is tragic that her life is on the brink Her father never loved her, so said her mother It's sad that they never really cared for one another So their little girl is the one who has to suffer And find her way alone in the world Then the next musical section... not sure what it is yet, may go into something like (and I'm just haphazardly making this up as I type) He was head of the English department Kept her after class, then to his apartment She was searching for her latest father figure Retaliate against her crazy mother... I know OGP but the kibosh on that last verse of yours, but I quite like it. I also like the changes you made! But that "life on the brink" line still rubs me the wrong way for some reason. I think because it's an abstraction. |
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Post by bee3 on Jan 10, 2013 9:51:53 GMT -5
^Well... I've moved on.  I now have an arrangement that I quite like. Had I gone that other route, I'd have to make the song longer so I could tie it all back together with another verse. Hopefully tonight, I can progress it further and post it. I don't know why the hell I decided to sing it in this key. |
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Post by stickboy on Jan 10, 2013 10:08:47 GMT -5
I don't know why the hell I decided to sing it in this key.
Because it sounds AWESOME - its just on the verge of breaking you but I love that - Neil Young - hello.
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Post by bee3 on Jan 11, 2013 0:17:58 GMT -5
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Post by stickboy on Jan 11, 2013 4:47:28 GMT -5
REALLY LOVE this!!
Here is me being mix picky, the very first kick beat that comes in - the guitar hit is a bit out, maybe just tighten that up.
I love that sound you have under the start of the song, personally I would just have the noise holding that first note throughout and let the guitar chords do the changing rather than the noise kind of following it.
BIG fan of your voice - just awesome
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Post by bee3 on Jan 11, 2013 8:37:50 GMT -5
Thanks Stick... maybe your new name can be Pickboy. Yeah, I knew something was off on that first kick... it was really late last night and I made a last ditch effort in lining up the bass with the kick better... still was off, but I was 'knackered' as the Brits would say. I was also thinking the same thing on that noise at the beginning (it's just electric guitar strummed really fast using the side of my thumb, then doubled with some reverb, delay, and compression). I wasn't sure if the notes would work out though... because to get that full effect, you have to strum all of the strings. |
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Post by bee3 on Jan 11, 2013 10:40:53 GMT -5
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 11, 2013 18:17:49 GMT -5
Sound great - I hate guys with musical skills and terrific vocal ability like you.
And now I'll tell you something that you already know - Your lead guitar playing is lagging behind all your other skills.
Do you have anyone who can play on your tracks? Everything else has reached finished recording level, so it's a pity to leave a weak link on them.
The 'Duane Eddy' guitar solo and Outro don't work at all IMO. They are the wrong flavour for the song.
But did I tell you that I like the song?
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Post by bee3 on Jan 11, 2013 18:28:37 GMT -5
Appreciate the frank feedback there OGP. Make no mistake about it... I am a subpar guitarist. One of my biggest regrets in life is not learning the guitar when I was younger. I know it and am... gulp... ok with it.  The thing is, on this song... I quite like the first guitar 'solo'... (I wasn't really considering it a solo... it's more of a 'part')... but I was thinking of having someone do a real solo on the outro. I have a ringer coming over on Tuesday next week. He's nothing short of amazing. |
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 11, 2013 18:59:40 GMT -5
... I quite like the first guitar 'solo'... (I wasn't really considering it a solo... it's more of a 'part')... but I was thinking of having someone do a real solo on the outro. I have a ringer coming over on Tuesday next week. He's nothing short of amazing. And herein lies the value of a Producer. We get attached to our own creations, but the Producer hears the reality. See what alternatives come out next Tuesday. |
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Post by leeknight on Jan 11, 2013 19:26:28 GMT -5
This really sounds great. Really.
'town' and 'brink' are crying out for George and Paul singing parallel harm as a hook. Something sounding different to the main harms. Mono maybe off 50% to one side.
Really cool stuff. Why don't you live in Encinitas? I would be your bass player for your showcase gigs in a flash. Nice stuff... over and over again. Please don't stop.
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 11, 2013 19:40:49 GMT -5
Why don't you live in Encinitas? I would be your bass player for your showcase gigs in a flash. Small world - I've got some friends who live in Cardiff. If I ever come over, let me be your rhythm player. |
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Post by leeknight on Jan 11, 2013 20:17:29 GMT -5
Well yeah. Please do.
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Post by monkeyuncle on Jan 12, 2013 6:19:00 GMT -5
Appreciate the frank feedback there OGP. Make no mistake about it... I am a subpar guitarist. One of my biggest regrets in life is not learning the guitar when I was younger. I know it and am... gulp... ok with it. The thing is, on this song... I quite like the first guitar 'solo'... (I wasn't really considering it a solo... it's more of a 'part')... but I was thinking of having someone do a real solo on the outro. I have a ringer coming over on Tuesday next week. He's nothing short of amazing. I actually like those guitar parts. Although they may not have a lot of flash and sizzle, the simple reflection of the melody works, IMHO. |
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Post by bee3 on Jan 12, 2013 9:11:41 GMT -5
Appreciate the frank feedback there OGP. Make no mistake about it... I am a subpar guitarist. One of my biggest regrets in life is not learning the guitar when I was younger. I know it and am... gulp... ok with it. The thing is, on this song... I quite like the first guitar 'solo'... (I wasn't really considering it a solo... it's more of a 'part')... but I was thinking of having someone do a real solo on the outro. I have a ringer coming over on Tuesday next week. He's nothing short of amazing. I actually like those guitar parts. Although they may not have a lot of flash and sizzle, the simple reflection of the melody works, IMHO. That's where I'm coming from too... but I have to give OGP's idea a try, particularly since I have a really good guitarist coming over next week. But I may miss that part... I really loved it when I did it.  |
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Post by oldgitplayer on Jan 12, 2013 21:38:02 GMT -5
I'm often wrong about these things - I just need to flag them in case I might be right.
So let's see if your guitarist blows your socks off or not.
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