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Post by oswlek on Oct 26, 2012 15:43:32 GMT -5
EDIT: New demo added:
FINAL MIX - picosong.com/33J2
Earlier stages... picosong.com/3wSp/
picosong.com/3w9X/ picosong.com/3srd
picosong.com/3sVb
Discussion of new direction starts at the top of page two. Unless you feel like digging through the backstory, just skip there.This an older tune that I can never tell whether I love it or hate it. There really is no middle ground with "Ordinary Life". At one point, I thought it was my best lyric, though it doesn't quite stand up to some of the stuff I've written with lately. So, is this one worth developing? In my head, I hear a "Strawberry Fields" type orchestration, with all sorts of creative things going on. I have some solid ideas, I'm just not sure if the song is worthy of the limited time I have, or if it ever will be. picosong.com/wWmu - demo from 2007, please overlook the intonation issues. Drag on a cigarette As I have my morning cup Burns inside oh but it Feels so right
Race outside try to Beat the cold I cannot remember The warm sun of last September
Get to work as I Curse under my breath Yours is not for taking Mine is, is forsaken
Close my eyes and I Think of better things Dreams don't last oh now these Days just pass
It's an ordinary life In an ordinary time
Have a drink At the local pub Seems these wounds are fading Instead they're only waiting
For one mistake To all come crashing That's my never ending Story so unrelenting
It's an ordinary life In an ordinary time
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Post by rsadasiv on Oct 26, 2012 15:50:25 GMT -5
What's the "one mistake"?
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Post by oswlek on Oct 26, 2012 15:54:08 GMT -5
Any mistake. I was trying to convey that the world is waiting for any opportunity to pounce on this poor guy.
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Post by bee3 on Oct 26, 2012 15:56:53 GMT -5
I say yes... get a proper recording. I really like the chord progression... it's familiar, but not in a bad way. It's rather comforting...
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Post by rsadasiv on Oct 26, 2012 16:13:20 GMT -5
3/2
Smokey drag And my Morning cup And it's Warm inside But my Bills won't hide So I Pack my bag Try to Catch the bus For the Two of us It's the Last day of November
Get to work As I Breathe my curse It's not Getting worse But I Have to answer email Still I Close my eyes Hope for Better things Living In my dreams Having You wake up beside me
It's an ordinary life In an ordinary time If you were only mine I could be Extraordinary
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Post by rsadasiv on Oct 26, 2012 16:13:53 GMT -5
I say yes... get a proper recording. I really like the chord progression... it's familiar, but not in a bad way. It's rather comforting... The melody reminded me of your Coffee song.
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Post by oswlek on Oct 26, 2012 16:22:31 GMT -5
The melody reminded me of your Coffee song. Yeah, he ripped me off. BTW, are you going to take this one over? I like some of what you did, but it would require completely rewriting the tune to make that shift. Did you have an idea for a new melody? If so, that would be interesting because another youtuber completely on his own did a cover of this once.
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Post by leeknight on Oct 26, 2012 16:57:44 GMT -5
Yes, I think it's good. And yes, I agree that it isn't as good as your newer stuff. And yes, it it should be revisited. There's a lot of really good stuff here. The melody is great, the vibe holds up real well. But it lacks any melodic development.
That's col on the one hand, as bee mentioned, it's comforting. Still, like a great Beatle tune, they're going to have qualities like you have here, but they're also going to offer more. More places to go, each section will have a distinct sound to it, and more focus lyrically. I don't mean more story... I mean taking advantage of your lyric winners. Setting them up. Focusing the images that are working. It feels unintentionally without aim. And that almost works but for me, not quite yet.
I'd figure out what's great about it and focus on that, then find a place or two that you can go melodically.
And, I'd try to give a bit of percolating rhythm instead of the dirge treatment. You got a good melody and chords, why Volga boat men it? Even just a little more toward Across the Universe would lift it a bit. But I really do think there is a lot a very good stuff inside.
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Post by rsadasiv on Oct 26, 2012 19:50:24 GMT -5
BTW, are you going to take this one over? I like some of what you did, but it would require completely rewriting the tune to make that shift. Did you have an idea for a new melody? No, it's all yours. That was pretty cool.
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Post by oldgitplayer on Oct 26, 2012 20:21:05 GMT -5
Definitely worth a revisit. I like the lyric for what it is. We may aspire to greater things, but sometimes things are simply good for what they are.
The cover also conveys something about the innate quality of the song as well.
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Post by leeknight on Oct 26, 2012 20:34:01 GMT -5
I hear it now. I must admit the cover brought into focus for me. I didn't listen to that and I agree with OGP here. He's bringing a different feel to it that works I think. I also like how he's slightly adjusted the melody. Why not try and work it up using some of that feel?
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Post by oswlek on Oct 27, 2012 6:16:57 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback everyone. Based on your replies here are some general thoughts I have on this direction.
Lee, you aren't the first person who has told me that the tempo or strumming pattern could use some tweaking. I'm leaning towards stealing from Jock's cover to solve that problem.
As for the melody, I had a mild epiphany this morning while pondering my off hand "Strawberry Fields" reference. It struck me that SF has not melodic development either, it just hides the repetitiveness in an altering orchestral arrangement playing fresh counter melodies.
Aside from being a stronger melody overall, what makes it really work is two things.
1) It starts with the hook.
2) It doesn't stay in one place long eough to make its sameness apparent.
In light of this I'm considering altering the opening to a horn section playing the vocal melody. That way the listener can get the meat of the song sooner.
I'm also looking for ideas on how to trim that opening verse down to three stanzas to get to the chorus sooner. I have a couple ideas for this, but I feel like I am a little too close. Can anyone point at sections in the first verse that they feel aren't necessary to help me trim one stanza off?
If I can't do that, I'll probably borrow Jock's idea by going high with the fourth verse melody.
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lck
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by lck on Oct 27, 2012 9:19:38 GMT -5
This is a really good song. Both versions have their good points, but I think the cover version pops more.
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Post by oswlek on Oct 27, 2012 9:58:28 GMT -5
Thanks, Lee. So, you don't think I need to trim off a stanza from the first verse, just alter the melody on the last one?
And what do you think about the idea of opening on the an interlude with the melody of the chorus?
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Post by leeknight on Oct 27, 2012 11:08:27 GMT -5
The verse and the chorus, for me, are too similar melodically. They both revolve around the iv chord. That, in itself, makes the two sections compete with each other. I really don't think you have your chorus melody and chords yet. It really is far too much like the verse right now.
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lck
New Member
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Post by lck on Oct 27, 2012 11:42:20 GMT -5
Thanks, Lee. So, you don't think I need to trim off a stanza from the first verse, just alter the melody on the last one? I think the 4 verses work fine as is. They're short enough that I sort of think of them as 2. I think the way your friend does the song works a bit better because he seems to be finding variations in the tune. His is at least a minute longer than yours and there's no feeling of "same-iness" to it. And his outro with the piano is really good. I disagree with Lee Knight about needing to make the chorus different from the verses, with the obvious caveat that he knows much more than I do about song structure, particularly in pop songs.
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Post by leeknight on Oct 27, 2012 11:48:16 GMT -5
As for the melody, I had a mild epiphany this morning while pondering my off hand "Strawberry Fields" reference. It struck me that SF has not melodic development either, it just hides the repetitiveness in an altering orchestral arrangement playing fresh counter melodies. I couldn't disagree more with your statement that Strawberry Fields doesn't have melodic development either. If fact, I think its melody, line to line in the 1st verse alone, has extensive development. I don't say this as some sort of Beatle champion, I could care less about any of that, I say it to keep you pointed in what I believe is the right direction for this tune's re-write. Just go line to line here and hear the way the melody re-uses melodic motives, builds on the extends them, all in these few lines. Let me take you down ‘Cause I'm going to Strawberry Fields Nothing is real And nothing to get hung about Strawberry Fields foreverThen the incredible chordal and melodic rhythm shift in this section below, contrast beautifully with the 1st section. Living is easy with eyes closed Misunderstanding all you see It's getting hard to be someone But it all works out It doesn't matter much to meEven remove the pitches and just check that melody's rhythm and its development. So, if you're trying to tap some of SF's vibe, don't overlook how fantastically the melody does develop.
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lck
New Member
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Post by lck on Oct 27, 2012 12:32:29 GMT -5
"Strawberry Fields" has some kick-ass harmonic, melodic and rhythmic development. That line -- "It's getting harder to be someone but it all works out" -- is a perfect example.
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Post by oswlek on Oct 27, 2012 12:43:23 GMT -5
You miss my point, LK. I'm not saying there isn't more variation within the verse melody (or chorus, for that matter), I'm saying that the verse melody is the same every time it appears. I meant to say something to that effect in the earlier post, but got lazy. I left the "stronger melody overall" in to mean pertty much the same thing.
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Post by oswlek on Oct 27, 2012 13:22:00 GMT -5
After relistening to both, I think I might just ask my buddy if he still has all the tracks and if he can just send me them individually. Lee, I've been pondering the v/c similarity and it isn't bothering me. I might try playing with the key of each and seeing if I can fake my way through it.
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Post by mrkelley on Oct 27, 2012 16:42:22 GMT -5
Lee, I've been pondering the v/c similarity and it isn't bothering me. I might try playing with the key of each and seeing if I can fake my way through it. I doesn't bother me.
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Post by leeknight on Oct 27, 2012 17:05:48 GMT -5
Yeah, it might be really cool trying a key thing. Or not. As always, I defer to the writer. Of course. Just tossing out impressions for ideas. But you know, you did say it bugged. That something was there that you really disliked. Just supplying options as always. As always.
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Post by oswlek on Oct 27, 2012 22:25:29 GMT -5
Yeah, it might be really cool trying a key thing. Or not. As always, I defer to the writer. Of course. Just tossing out impressions for ideas. But you know, you did say it bugged. That something was there that you really disliked. Just supplying options as always. As always. Yeah, and it still bugs... Just not when I listen to Jock's version, which seems to be the consensus. So I think the time has come for me to shit-can my ideas for it and accept that his is the real version.
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Post by oldgitplayer on Oct 27, 2012 23:34:09 GMT -5
Just not when I listen to Jock's version, which seems to be the consensus. So I think the time has come for me to shit-can my ideas for it and accept that his is the real version. I'm sure it happens all the time in bands that one person may bring in a new song, and the next person has the luxury of hearing it for the first time, and finds it easy to take it to the next level. No sweat.
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Post by rickdieffenbach on Oct 28, 2012 3:28:32 GMT -5
My comments are outside of songwriting per say....
(listening to the cover version)... My lord this song is begging for piano as the heavy accompaniment. It would be very very cool sounding and feeling.
Same thing with the original.
Rick
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Post by leeknight on Oct 28, 2012 11:25:32 GMT -5
Yeah, it might be really cool trying a key thing. Or not. As always, I defer to the writer. Of course. Just tossing out impressions for ideas. But you know, you did say it bugged. That something was there that you really disliked. Just supplying options as always. As always. Yeah, and it still bugs... Just not when I listen to Jock's version, which seems to be the consensus. So I think the time has come for me to shit-can my ideas for it and accept that his is the real version. "Just not when I listen to Jock's version". To me, it's still an issue there as well. I'm not saying that if I heard this on a record I'd notice the issue, what I am saying though is, as a WIP, now is the time to tighten that up. And honestly, writer to writer, I don't think it is on par with your best stuff, even in the cover version, because of the lack of melodic variation. It never goes to another place even subtly. I see others disagree. I respect that. But I do disagree with them as well. AIn't nothin' wrong with it the way it is, and if that's what you're going for, cool. But you're saying it bothers you. Me too. And I think that's why. Having said all that, I'll let it rest because it sounds like you are developing a focus here. Cool...
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Post by oswlek on Oct 28, 2012 19:08:54 GMT -5
Lee, I can't disagree with you, about the variation or the quality relative to the recent stuff. The problem is, I don't think this song will ever get there (or at least, I'm not in a position to bring it there right now), so rather than beating my head against the wall, I'm accepting defeat and moving on.
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Post by leeknight on Oct 29, 2012 8:26:15 GMT -5
I know that one well.
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Post by rickdieffenbach on Oct 29, 2012 9:03:56 GMT -5
Hi Justin, In response to your specific question, I rearranged the 1st half of the song in an mp3. Now... I know... I am breaking the law. But the chorus is just so strong in this... that I.. ah... put it up front. If it were being recorded from scratch, I'd recommend that the style of the 1st chorus use be tailored to be more of a teaser, and not the full strength version that I cut and pasted. You know me by now.. who needs lyrics when one can have music... :-)... and so, I reaarranged the song to make it feel right musically. It breaks up the lyrical flow, but this particular song has a lot of heart under the hood and needs to be let out of the box. Just the 1st half just to give a sense of what I was thinking. www.allureiw.com/ordinaryrick.mp3
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Post by oswlek on Oct 29, 2012 10:25:57 GMT -5
Thanks, Rick. That isn't a bad idea, it certainly breaks up the melodic flow nicely.
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